Dating : Episode 3, Part 1: So, are we dating? ft. Erik

[00:00:50]

Kimi (K): Hi, welcome to Adulthood Pending Podcast! I’m Kimi.

Annalise (A): I’m Annalise.

Brittanee (B): I’m Brittanee.

K: We are a podcast for college students, recent graduates, or anyone else who is figuring out that being an adult isn’t as simple as it’s made out to be. Join us as we share how we’re navigating our careers, post grad lives, and the whole adulting experience.

B: So today’s episode is going to be about relationships! We’re going to give some back story about how we met our current partners and how our experiences have shaped our perceptions of being in a relationship. And we have a very special guest with us today, Kimi’s partner, Erik. So Erik, if you would like to introduce yourself and kind of give a little background of where you are on your adulthood journey.

Erik (E): Sure. Hi, I’m Erik. I am Kimi’s partner of two years now. Where am I in adulthood? I suppose that depends on your benchmarks for adulthood. I suppose if I think about a few more conventional ones…I haven’t graduated yet, I’m a senior, so I’m still in school right now. I’m not financially independent yet. I haven’t lived on my own, like paid my own rent essentially.

I mean, I’ve lived away from the house for the better part of like five or six years, but I still am not like fully moved out, I suppose. I’m not married or have any children or any of that part of life. So, I would say I’m relatively early in the adulthood by these standards. And then, of course, there’s always like the [question of] “Do you feel like an adult?” And no, I think I feel — my conceptual age is like somewhere around 19 [and] I’ll be turning 23 in a month now, and I do think that that’s a few years later than I expect [to be right now]. But, uh, yeah.

[00:02:50]

B: So as we’ve tried in our last episode, we’re going to try to ask questions, so that our listeners can get to know us a little better! And the question for today’s episode is: What is your love language?

K: So to give some explanation, there is a book written in the 1990s about the five different love languages, and it was this author’s theory on how we like to give and receive love. So the author, Gary Chapman, broke this down into five different components: acts of service, gift giving, physical touch, quality time, and words of affirmation. So we just thought that it’d be fun to share these to see how we are similar and different. To start off with my love language is words of affirmation and quality time

A: My love language is also quality time but in addition to that, it’s also acts of service.

B: My love language is… so with friendship[s], it’s quality time. But I recently took it since being in a relationship, and that one was physical touch, which was pretty interesting, because I’d normally don’t —

A: You don’t like physical touch?

E: *laughs*

B: Yeah, I think it’s probably just because me and my current boyfriend are in a long distance relationship, so that’s probably what I lack most in our relationship.

E: I think mine is quality time [based on the] last time I took it? But I feel like there’s a lot of them that I appreciate. So I don’t really know.

K: And the whole concept of love languages, it’s just like the Myers Briggs Personality Test. Just because you score highly in one of them doesn’t mean that you don’t like the others. It’s just the one that you might prefer, according to this test.

A: Yeah, and I think also, Brittanee, you mentioned that you’re in a long distance relationship [and] so you probably value physical touch more. I do think also that [your] love language is dependent on your current situation and your current circumstance[s] too

B: Yeah, for sure, because when I’m there too, I think my love language also shifts to words of affirmation. And —

A: Do you know if words of affirmation is your second —

B: Yes, it is.

A: — love language?

B: It is

A: Ok, cool!

B: Yeah, so if you want to leave a comment on our most recent Instagram post you can let us know what your love language is so we can get to all know you better. So Erik, as our guest on today’s episode, would you like to kind of dive into your own personal thoughts about relationships?

[00:05:24]

E: Sure. I think one of the big things that I like to, I don’t know, bring up about relationships is that all relationships are very different.

A lot of times we just use the vocabulary of “a relationship” as if we’re all thinking about the same model of a relationship. And I don’t think it’s that way at all.

In fact, I think a lot of times what we’re talking about when we say “A relationship” or “they’re in a relationship” or “we’re in a relationship” [is that] we have a specific model that we’ve just inherently inherited from society.

A: Mm

B: Mm

E: And a lot of times I think for a lot of people, that’s like a heterosexual, committed, romantically-exclusive, and monogamous relationship. And those are four completely different parameters that not every relationship needs to satisfy, you know? And I think, for example, one of the easiest one[s] to draw attention to is, like, sexuality. I think the kind of relationship model that we think about a lot in society doesn’t always work for queer people or people that are not straight, for example, their relationships inherently look different. And, you know, like gender roles, right? [How] gender roles [are] being implicated in all of this. And then like, what happens to like heterosexual or heteronormative gender roles in a relationship with, like, two women or two men or even just two queer people, right?

So I like to share that because I think that’s something that’s really informed my perspective about relationships and that’s developed over time. I learned a lot just being in a relationship with a queer person. It revealed a lot to me because I was someone who I, historically, I’ve only really been in those kinds of relationships that I just described. And so when I was in this — when I started this — even before starting this relationship with this person who identifies as queer, it started to reveal all these preconceived notions I had and, not necessarily how they’re good or bad, But, just like [how] I thought this was how these things work. And it doesn’t have to work that way. Or maybe you don’t want it to work that way, you know? and I just think that’s like important to consider. So that’s what I think about when I think about relationships.

B: Yeah, wow, Erik, thank you for bringing that perspective, especially since we are very limited between Annalise, Kimi, and I, I think it’s important to acknowledge our restrictions that we all can talk about when it comes to relationships. And I think you bring a really good perspective that we just really can’t speak to.

[00:07:50]

B: So to give some more context for our listeners, Kimi and Erik, would you like to kind of go into depth about how you met and how you started dating?

E: Sure, Kimi. You want to start?

A: *laughs*

B: *laughs*

K: Yeah. So, Erik and I met each other around two years ago. At the time we were both juniors in college and we had both downloaded Tinder around the same time. It was really our first interaction on Tinder using the app, and we were one of each other’s first matches so that was really exciting. So, actually, during the time that I got Tinder, one of the reasons why I wanted to get it is because I had been single up until that point — I think I was what 20 at that time. And I felt like I was very content with who I was, ao I was ready to, like, explore a relationship with someone and I downloaded Tinder pretty early on in the school year and Brittanee was actually there to help me with my creation profile.

A: Oh, your creation profile!

K: *laughs* With my profile creation.

So Erik was, as I mentioned, one of my first matches and we started talking and initially I was very interested in him just because he was pretty straightforward. After a few messages, maybe within the span of four days, he was like, “You know what? I like you. Do you want to go out on a date?” And I was like, “Oh, this is so straightforward! Yeah, sure.” And the funny thing about this whole situation is [that] we went to schools within the consortium of five schools. So we had mutual friends, we lived really close to each other, but we had never met each other prior to this, and probably our circles wouldn’t have really overlapped if we continued college without meeting each other. But we met in person, had our date [and] it went really well.

And then afterwards, I asked him for his number and our relationship flourished after that.

B: Ooh! It flourished!!

A: It flourished! I do remember you going to the date. I remember because we all had been together at that time. And I remember it was… you got brunch, right?

K: Yeah, wait Britt was like —

B: Yeah, wait.

K: Dude, Britt —

E: We got coffee.

B: Yeah, I uh I remember like they had to meet at a certain place, and I had to walk somewhere where that meetup spot was on the way. So I just remember I walked Kimi down and [I] literally, like, hid behind this bush and just watched her meet up with you. Did you know that, Erik?

E: I did. She told me after the fact, yeah.

A: Oh, so you didn’t see Brittanee hiding but you knew- afterwards.

E: Yeah, no, I didn’t see Brittanee, but I found out afterwards.

B: My skills. That’s how stealthy I am

K: You reminded me of one of those cartoons with like the newspaper where you cut the circles in the eyes

E: *laughs*

B: *laughs* Yeah, that’s funny

A: Erik, what’s your side of the story about how you and Kimi started dating?

E: Alright, so my side… A lot of the details are the same, I suppose. I had downloaded Tinder as well. Although, my reasons for downloading Tinder were a bit different. I had been out of a relationship for maybe six months and up until then I had only been in like very serious, committed, romantic relationships and I was kind of curious to try out this whole like casual dating, friends with benefits type thing that my friends were all about, and mainly just like trying to experience intimacy in a non-romantic context, I suppose. And so that’s why I downloaded Tinder, [and then I] matched with Kimi pretty quickly. She was one of the first people I messaged, if not the first one, and yeah. And then I asked her if she wanted to go on a date and then pretty quickly into the dating process I was like, “Hmm this….This doesn’t…This is not the direction I would like.” I was — it was not the direction — going the direction of, like, a casual relationship. But we continued to hang out and at some point we talked about what we were looking for and it wasn’t quite a match. But we still continued to hang out and just, I guess, not really think about it. And, eventually, we just decided to, yeah, be more serious and I forewent the project of casual dating. And here I am now, two years later…

A: In a flourished relationship.

E:

Flourishing, some would say trapped.

K: Oh my gosh.

A: Oh!

B: *laughs*

K: I mean, the running joke in our relationship is that I baited him.

A: *laughs* You baited him.

E: She baited me into this… this loving long term committed relationship. The original Tinder project was a complete failure — aiming for, like, low commitment casual interactions and ending up in a long term committed relationship. I can’t complain. I’m blessed, right? But, uh,

B: Aww

E: the [original] project was definitely a failure, for sure.

K: So, yeah, that’s been the joke that he never wanted to be in relationship and now he’s in one

B: *laughs*

[00:12:44]

K: Britt, you’re also in a pretty serious relationship of almost two years as well. And also long distance! So, we have a lot of similarities so I would just be curious to learn more about how you met [your partner] and why you started to date.

B: Yeah, so I met my current boyfriend the summer before my sophomore year. We were on this summer retreat for the Christian fellowship we were both a part of, but we both did not know each other going into it. But we were in the same group, and it was like a pretty small group so it was maybe five other people. And so, after that, we kind of kept in touch and I actually really liked him for my junior year of college but he dated someone else *laughs* not salty about that but um and so —

K: No, she really liked him.

B: I really did

K: She would always tell me and she would purposely go to church and drive so she could hang out with him

B: Ok that sounds so bad, Kimi! *laughs*

K: *laughs* I just think it’s a funny detail

A: I mean it worked out! It worked out, right?

B: Yeah, it’s funny though because… so after he started dating someone I had to — in order to get over that crush — Because he was probably one of two people I seriously actually liked during my time in college. Like I had little crushes here and there, but he was like one of the few people I actually liked.

And so when he told me he started dating someone, I immediately switched to hating him essentially.

Like ask any of my friends, I would always complain about him. I would pick the little, like, the smallest things just to say just to criticize him and not like him.

And then senior year, we did this thing at our school called Data Match. It was essentially [a website where] you take this quiz and it was very Claremont Consortium centric and it was kind of a joke, essentially. And then they would match you with certain people [using some algorithm], and pretty much everyone did it. Like people — my friends in relationships did it, [and] it was kind of just everything everyone [at the Claremont Colleges] did. But I didn’t want to do it, but two of my really good friends just forced me to do it just for fun and then he was one of my matches. And yeah, so I didn’t really think anything of it, but we started just, like, hanging out because we were friends before [we matched] anyways.

And then this was like two months before senior year ended, and then we were like, “oh, we like each other”. And so we just were dating kind of with the intention of breaking up after senior year but using our relationship as a growing experience because. I personally had not been in a relationship up until that point. And so, yeah, we started dating, but we decided to continue dating after graduating so we’ve been long distance for over a year now. He lives in Madison, Wisconsin and I’m based in LA so, yeah.

E: Cute.

B: *laughs* Thank you. Thank you.

[00:15:50]

A: So what’s it like being in a long distance relationship?

B: Being long distance has been really interesting because in school, it was my senior year and so my priorities were probably 1) friends 2) school 3) him, which I know sounds bad, but I had at that point, most of the time during our relationship when we were together, intended to break up with him after graduating. And so going long distance, he kind of became number one very quickly and I think it was hard for me to adjust to being dependent on [him and the relationship] or trying to balance, not being dependent on him as a partner and trying to find my own happiness when, at the same time, most of the conflict in my life was being in a long distance relationship because I missed him so much. It was really hard for me to adjust not being with him every single day, so he very quickly became my biggest source of conflict in my life and I had to also at the same time try really hard to find my own happiness outside of my relationship with him in order to sustain the healthy relationship we currently have.

K: Yeah, I could have imagined how that would be tough because you just graduated so you’re entering this new phase in your life, you’re in a relatively new relationship and he’s not like anywhere near you. So you’re just like, there’s just a lot of changes happening in your life that I feel like could be pretty difficult, which makes sense why the beginning of your long distance relationship could have been hard.

B: Mm hmm.

A: Well, Kimi, you and Erik were also in a long distance, right? Because Erik, I believe you took a gap semester?

E: Yup

A: And Kimi, you were still in school.

K: Mm hmm

A: And then I guess you’re long distance now as well.

K: Mm hmm.

K: Yeah. So Erik and I, we never, I mean going into our relationship we could not foresee what was going to happen. And like we’ve actually been long distance for almost a majority of our relationship. Which is kind of funny because Erik never wanted to do —

E: No, definitely the majority — two thirds. Two thirds of it, yeah.

K: Yeah, and Erik never wanted to do long distance so…

A: He didn’t even want a relationship though, to be fair.

K: *laughs* I know, [and yet] here we are!

E: *laughs*

B: Baited.

A: *laughs*

E: Yeah, I mean… yeah, you’re right. I didn’t. I wasn’t really interested in a committed relationship. And not only did I end up in a committed relationship, I ended up in one that very quickly became a long term relationship — a long distance relationship — and is like, continuing to be one, but… Yeah, it was like we only had a little bit of time together before we were suddenly quickly separated because we met in the fall of our junior years…

K: Yeah. So then we met in the fall, and then summer we had those three months apart [and] you decided to take a gap semester.

E: Wait, what about spring though, junior year

K: Spring junior year we were…

B: You were together, right?

K: Yeah, we were together.

A: Yeah, you were together.

E: Okay, yeah. So we had spring together. And then summer we were separated. And then in the fall, I took a semester off and then Kimi worked an internship. So we went, like, that was like a nine month window where we didn’t see each other.

K: Consistently.

E: [We didn’t see each other in the] summer and fall consistently, yeah. We, like, made trips to see each other. That’s the other thing about long distance relationships is you got to really plan —

A: Mm hmm

E: — Time to see each other. And it also costs money too.

K: Yeah!

A: Yup, yup

E: It’s like a non trivial amount of money.

K: I had to add “long distance relationship” into my budget!

A: Yeah

B: Oh my gosh, you would.

K: Like a section for it

E: Yeah, and I just saw my bank account steadily decreasing while I was not making any money. But, uh,

A: Yeah. I mean that’s super, super valid, I think, to have to budget because once you’re in a relationship that is another thing to think about financially. Because, you know, it’s not even just about like… even in relationships where you’re not long distance, you’re still spending money.

K: Yeah, which we actually think like, I think our long distance relationship is less than the total, like, the total amount that I spend in a long distance relationship is less than if we were to see each other all the time because it’s maybe like one large expense every few months.

A: Right, right

B: Mm hmm.

K: But still it’s like a large chunk of money that you have to allocate.

E: I don’t think… I think it’s more. I think it’s more than we would normally spend.

A: Because the total sum is just so much?

E: It’s just like airfare.

A: Of cost? Right right right.

K: Yeah.

E: And food. They just get… it’s just large. It’s a cost that would not exist otherwise, and uh, but yeah, I mean, that’s okay. I’m okay with that.

B: Erik, how [have] parts or factors of your relationship changed since being long distance?

E: Um, that’s a good question. Well, one thing for certain is communication and making time for each other is, like, much more important because when you’re in the same place like when Kimi and I were in school, she might have said this earlier, we did not live that far apart. Like, even though we were at separate colleges, they were right next to each other. And I could practically, like, throw a rock at her window. But that meant that we had a lot of circumstantial interaction. Like it was very easy to get a meal together. Or if I wanted to go visit her or something like that it was just very easy.

But long distance, especially with the timezone difference because I’m on the east coast and she’s on the west coast, it’s like three hours, right?

You have to actually plan your interactions and you have to make sure that [the] interactions that you do have are satisfying the needs of both people.

So for example, I’m, like, I’m naturally not a super social person. Like I enjoy interacting with people, but I would say my baseline state of social interaction is much lower than most people. And that’s become a lot more obvious through [our] long distance [relationship] because I have to make more of an effort to communicate and initiate interactions with Kimi than I might otherwise naturally do. And then, she also has to keep in mind that, like, my keeping to myself [does] not have anything [to do] with the relationship.

A: Mm, mm hmm.

E: It’s just kind of like a… Like a quality of my personality, I suppose. And so, I guess to bring it back, one thing that’s changed is [that] it’s put a lot more weight and importance on scheduling time together and making time for each other.

B: Mm. Kimi, do you have any insights of how you think things have changed?

K: Yeah, I agree with Erik. I think, definitely, being in a long distance relationship kind of like enhanced the potential conflict that was already there. Like, one of our main conflicts is that Erik isn’t as much of a planner as I am. So when it comes to stuff like scheduling calls where — when we are in different time zones, it’s just a little harder because there’s days perhaps when he doesn’t want to talk and I’m not aware of that. So I think over time, my expectations for [our] relationship have shifted to a state where, like, we’re able to compromise on talking every day.

Or like if we aren’t going to talk every day, talking about that in advance so I’m aware that if he’s not communicating, that’s why. And I’m not sure if it’s, like, common for couples to talk every day. That’s something that I really enjoy but Erik and I, we don’t really text at all throughout the day. If we text at all, it’s to communicate when we are going to talk or we’ll just send like random Snapchats throughout the day. But what does your long distance relationship look like, Brittanee?

B: Yeah, so I really like talking every day just, well, mostly through text throughout the week, because we also have a time zone difference [where] he’s two hours ahead and my work ends kind of later than most work schedules. So we try to call at least twice a week and then throughout that I like to at least, like, catch up with him through texts every day, like at the end of the day for a little bit.

A: Mm hmm.

[00:24:35]

B: So, from my experience on social media, aka TikTok, I feel like one of the two prevailing attitudes about relationships are either 1)It’s a lot of work, a lot of compromise, a lot of communication or 2) you should never settle for anything less than perfect. Like, if this man or this woman is — or this person — is not doing it for you, [then] there’s someone [else] out there who’s going to give you 100% and meet all your needs and be that partner that you’ve always wanted.

A: Mm, So it’s, I guess, a debate of whether [if] someone is worth the time and, like, the commitment and the compromise versus if you should just drop that person and wait because someone better might come along?

B: Yeah, exactly. So I was just wondering if either 1) you agree with either of those two sentiments or 2) why are there two such contrasting attitudes about relationships and how do you make sense of coming to terms with each of those?

K: As someone with only one relationship experience, I feel like I can’t necessarily speak to that… I don’t know, Erik, what do you think? Erik’s had more partners than we have so…

B: *laughs* True.

E: Yeah, I see… I — I think I’m familiar with what you’re describing here and this kind of media portrayal of, like, this very black and white dramaticized, or romanticized perhaps, perspective about relationships. I definitely see the one where it’s like [other] people are very quick to tell you to leave a partner for any sort of reasons.

A: Mm, yes.

E: And I often think that some people that are so quick to make those suggestions would not be quick to make the decision if they were in the other person’s shoes. And that’s just, like, [because] relationships are not easy, right? They take a lot of work and they will inevitably have conflict and I think people are very quick to pass judgment on other people’s relationships.

A: Mm, mm hmm.

B: Mm hmm.

E: And it’s very easy when you only hear parts of the story, right? When you only hear about some explosive argument that really brought out some, like, bad side in someone’s character.

A: Yes, so true.

E: Right, when in reality that’s a situation that might occur like once every three years or something. And so suddenly you have that in your model — this incomplete model — of like their partner, right? You know?

E: And so yeah, I think I’ve definitely seen that, at least, and this very black and white [notion], and I don’t encourage people to just like, I don’t know, like, keep searching for the perfect person because I really think people also don’t even know what a perfect person is or what that would look like for them. Like it’s so hard to know what your needs are until you start interacting with somebody that starts to meet those needs, you know? And so like yeah, I think, just like a lot of people don’t even know who they could have a great relationship with to begin with until they start one, I suppose.

A: Yeah, and also to that point, it’s like, you don’t know who — if that person will fulfill your need[s].

But you also don’t know how you yourself will grow and I feel like as you grow [then] your needs and your wants will change.

So, someone was telling me, also, that they think that they will find their “the one” a lot easier now especially with dating apps, because you have so many more ways to find people and you just have, like, you have literally one app where you can go through all the eligible people in your area. Whereas before it was like, “Oh, this person I meet… they could be the one.” And like you don’t know who else is out there. But then for people…. I wonder if the reason why people are so quick to drop someone is because they know that there are other people out there because of dating apps or something.

K: Mm hmm.

B: Very interesting.

E: I think the whole dating app thing that you’re suggesting does provide this, I won’t say illusion, but provides this idea that there are so many people out there.

A: Yeah.

E: so many candidates. You know, and I do think that that has changed the relationship landscape, you know? For better or worse.

A: Oh, for sure.

E: Yeah and definitely could, I could definitely see how that contributes to what you’re describing here. I mean, like, how many times does one of your friends they, I don’t know, as soon as they get out of breakup and then like a week later, they’re back on Tinder, like, meeting new people or something like that. If anything, people will go towards an app like that to help

A: Right right right.

E: Help navigate, you know, the exiting of a relationship, right? Getting over someone [by] seeing new people, right, you know? And so, I mean, it’s definitely changed the game for sure.

[00:29:23]

A: Speaking of dating apps… Kimi and Erik, you met on Tinder and Kimi went on to find a relationship?

K: Mm hmm.

A: Or find a long term relationship?

K: Mm hmm.

A: Yeah. And then, Erik, you went on for casual dating [purposes], as you said, as you mentioned earlier. So what — at what point did you go from “Okay, I’m using Tinder [for] casual dating” to “Okay, I’m messaging Kimi and I’m going to do this long term relationship, or a committed relationship rather”

B: Oooh.

E: So, that came after I’d spent a lot of time with Kimi. The more Kimi and I were hanging out, the more I really liked Kimi. And it was very apparent that this was not going to be like a casual relationship or like a Friends With Benefits situation. So…

K: In what way was that apparent?

E: We talked about it.

K: *laughs* Yeah.

E: And you were not interested.

A: *laughs*

K: Okay, okay.

B: *laughs*

K: To give background —

A: But were you okay with that, Erik?

E: Yeah, I was okay with [that] and I also didn’t want — because she wasn’t interested in that, I didn’t want to, like, push that subject any further because I really liked her and so I didn’t want to compromise whatever relationship we already had. Um, but as we, like, kept hanging out more… more and more, I think, we both wanted to have more of a serious relationship. And part of why I didn’t want to be in a relationship was, I just wanted more time to be single and “work on myself”.

A: Mm, mm hmm.

B: Mm.

E: I did not want a commitment to get in the way of me doing certain things in my life and working on certain things about myself.

B: Mm.

E: And eventually, Kimi convinced me that I would still be able to do that within a relationship. And that took me a while to really to — I had to think about that for a while because I had been in relationships in the past. And, after a while, I believed it myself that like, yeah, I can still grow and like do the things I want to do within a relationship. And after that, it was a pretty easy decision. But it was, for me, it was that hurdle of really believing that I can [do all that and] that the relationship is not going to impede my life. And I don’t think it has. I think… I think, if anything, it’s made it much better and it’s — she’s been a supporting figure for a lot of those, like, aforementioned goals that I talked about here. So, it’s like… it worked out well.

A: Wow.

B: Aww.

K: And to clarify, because I feel like I sound like a schemer —

A: *laughs* You bait him and then convince him, yeah.

E: I mean… I mean… *laughs*

B: *laughs*

K: I, like, baited him and then convinced him and all of these things. But to clarify, when, now to refresh my memory, on the first date, he asked, like, “What was your intention of downloading Tinder?”

So straight from the bat, we were very clear on our intentions of getting the app.

And like I feel like we both had the mindset that we could be talking to multiple people while using the app, which I think is something that when people first get Tinder, or any other dating apps, they don’t necessarily consider. Like, I feel like when you install an app, you can’t assume that the other person is only talking to you just because that’s not how the app the app is set up to be.

But as we continue[d] to talk more and I learned about why he didn’t want to be in a relationship, I was like, from the get go, a little confused because all the things that we were doing, in my mind, seemed like a relationship. Like, just the amount of communication and contact we had with each other. So it was at that point, two months after downloading Tinder and meeting, that I was kind of like, “Well, why aren’t we in a relationship? Like, why can’t we add this title?” Which was something that Erik was against because he didn’t understand the purpose of having that title which, for me, it was important because it was just like why not? We’re doing everything that already is a relationship.

B: Mm hmm.

A: Erik, can you elaborate on why you didn’t feel a need to put a title or a label? Just curious, not as, not putting blame, but just because I feel like some people just don’t like the label. So I’m just curious.

E: Yeah, I can. I can talk about that. Especially because I feel like that’s a point of contention for a lot of people. They’re like —

A: Yeah

E: — like I’ve heard from actually some of my female friends in particular, they’d be like, “Why do these men… why are they so averse to commitment and not want the labels and stuff like that?”

A: To DTR and stuff.

E: Yeah, this —

K: Mm hmm, define the relationship.

E: — this like…yeah, right? And I would say, from my case, it has a lot of it has to do with what does the label mean, I suppose. And we’ve been talking about a relationship as like this idea or this entity that we all seem to be on the same page about, like, a relationship, right? When I think “a relationship” itself is a very complicated thing and every relationship has, like, different structure[s] and different parameters and so, to me, it’s important what does the label mean. Like, I think for a lot of people, when we talk about “a relationship”, what we’re really talking about is a committed, heterosexual, romantic, monogamous relationship.

A: Right.

E: Or some, like, combination of these types of things is what most people think of and, yeah, we refer to it as, like, a relationship as like this kind of universal concept when that’s just one specific model of a relationship, you know?

A: Sure.

E: And so if somebody has the idea that saying “we’re in a relationship” means that thing, it’s important to me that we define what that means before you attach any label to it or something like that. I feel like a lot of people go the other way around. They’ll do this labeling process where, I don’t know, a guy will ask the girl, like, “Do you want to be my girlfriend?” Or the other way around. And you’ll agree, like, “Okay, let’s be in a relationship.” But they won’t explicitly outline all the details about the relationship, like what the expectations are for intimacy and exclusivity and stuff like that and so, to me, it’s more important to do all of that and you don’t even need a label to do all that.

The label is almost like secondary.

It’s at the end of that laundry list of things to discuss [and] expectations to assemble. It’s like, “Okay, now what do we want to call it?” You know? And so, to me, the label was never so important as being on the same page about how the relationship operates. And the label was important to Kimi, and I’m okay with the label — I should clarify that. But, to me, the label is not significant for that reason, to me, the label is just… it’s just the after effect, I suppose.

A: Right. It’s like, what does that label entail and what are the different elements of this relationship that you’re going to define really mean.

E: Exactly, yeah. So for me, I guess, label and commitment did not go hand in hand. I think some people say… I think some people think that when you’re averse to a label, It also means that you’re averse to commitment. And I think for a lot of people that could be what’s going on. But I would say [that] in my case, I was averse to the label because it seemed like it was bypassing the entire conversation about what the relationship would look like, I suppose.

A: Yeah, and I think, like, this is something that society has kind of drilled into so many of us is that you have to have a label for a relationship.

E: Yeah, for sure.

K: Mm hmm.

B: Mm.

E: Yeah… yeah, I don’t know. I think people use — I think people use labels more as, like, tools than they… So, or like for example, a common one is like “my boyfriend”, right? So in the same way that “we are in a relationship” is like a label, you know, in that way saying like, “that’s my boyfriend” is also a label. And so some people will use that label to communicate some sort of ownership or something like that. And to them, it’s important… The label is important for other people.

A: Mm.

B: Mm.

E: Like the label, in that sense, the label has like a social significance. And I’ve seen that a lot with, like, my friends and, I don’t know… people [and] their other relationships where the label is important to someone for [them] to communicate to the rest of the world. And I could see that. I — that’s, like, valid, that’s justifiable, you know? To me, that’s not as important… to me, it’s more important that we agree on the label and what it means, I suppose.

A: Right.

E: But I think definitely it has [importance for] a lot of people. The significance of the label is different for everybody, and I think you just… I think it’s important to sort that out, yeah.

K: Yeah, so we sorted that out pretty early on, and I think that was really helpful in understanding our expectations for the relationship [when we were] just starting off. And, like, I think that’s why we didn’t really have a lot of conflict in the beginning of our relationship because things were just so clear. And I remember a few months into knowing Erik, I was like, “Wow, you know, if we ever break up I’m gonna totally use these skills for my next relationship.”

A: *laughs*

B: Uh… okay.

K: *laughs* Just cause I feel like it was a really good, like, structure and how to be intimate with someone

A: Mm hmm.

E: We should talk about about your experience with labeling and DTRing, Brittanee.

K: Yeah.

B: I mean mine was pretty, I feel like I don’t have much to contribute just because it’s pretty straightforward.

E: What was it like, that process from —

A: Yeah.

E: — going from your friendship to, like, yeah, something more serious.

A: Yeah, and I guess, especially because you two went into the relationship thinking that you would break up in like two months.

K: Yes.

E: Right.

B: Yeah.

A: So, what was that discussion like?

B: Mm, yeah so we have this ongoing joke that basically I did all the work in initiating every single thing in our relationship. So I will say —

K: *laughs*

A: Nice.

K: In what way?

B: Well, because I was the one that kind of broke the — or like crossed the line of being like, “Hey, I think I kind of like you like more than a friend…”

K: Ooh

B: And then I was like, “I think, like, yeah, we should try something more and just see how that goes.” I will say [that] because we had two months left of our senior year, I was just kind of… everything was easier to initiate because I was just like,

A: Mm.

B: Like, “Let’s just try this and see how this goes.” [And that] kind of thing.

A: Right.

B: And so yeah, when we first started dating we were kind of both [under] the impression — we were both on the same page of thinking: Okay, yeah, this is kind of maybe not the smartest idea to start a relationship with two months left [in the school year] where we’re going to be together. But I like you enough to see what I can grow from in this relationship. And I think he’d be a good person to do that with.” He was in a relationship a couple times before, but not anything super serious. So we were kind of on the same page of like yeah,

we just want this relationship to be something we can learn from and maybe learn in the future.

What we would want in [other] relationships so yeah, defining the relationship was kind of just, like, “Okay, like let’s date [and] we’ll keep it really open ended.” But, yeah, that’s one thing we did not communicate super clearly [about], but it was pretty prominent that we wouldn’t maybe continue [our relationship] after graduating just because we knew that he wasn’t going to be in the same place where I was going to be.

A: That wraps up part 1 of 2 for our episode on relationships. In Part 2, we talk about who should pick up the check on the first date and what we learned from a break up, so be sure to check that out! For more updates you can follow us @adulthoodpendingpodcast on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, and LinkedIn. We’re @adultpendingpod on Twitter, and you can also send us an email to hello.adulthoodpendingpodcast@gmail.com. Thanks for listening and be sure to tune into Part 2.