Dating : The lack of effort and respect in today’s dating is frustrating
I put effort into dating and it has not been reciprocated at all so far. I try to be respectful, mannered and generally ladylike. Are these not important values in today’s dating world? I’ve noticed a trend of men being extremely lazy in dating and I am very frustrated by it. For example, for the past few dates I’ve been on, I took an hour and a half to get ready not to mention how much money I spent on grooming to ensure I made a good impression. The guys showed up in some version of a stained tshirt, baseball cap and old gym shorts. It was infuriating to consider how much time and money I spent to look nice meanwhile they couldn’t even be bothered to put on clean clothes. Like, I’m not asking for them to come dressed in a 3 piece suit. Simply something clean and put together that shows thought and effort.
I’m not asking for them to take me to some thousand dollar restaurant but when someone suggests McDonald’s because they get paid Friday and they don’t want to spend more than 5 dollars on a girl they don’t know in case it’s a waste, I see that as disrespect. Some highlights of dates I’ve been on include someone going to the bathroom and staying there for 30 min right when the check came out, someone else requesting I drive an hour each way to pick them up and drop them off because they were planning to drink themselves into a stupor during the date, another ordering 3 entrees and a take home when they learned I would be paying for the date, yet another one trying to gauge the possibility of having sex as an icebreaker and another one demanding I pay for the first five dates we go on as proof that I’m not a gold digger. To me, this is simply laziness and disrespect.
My ex and I broke up because he wasn’t putting in any effort into the relationship. I am quickly finding out that the guys out there aren’t that much different. I match with someone on a dating app and even though I’m not extroverted, I try my best to hold up a conversation over text and be lively only to be hit with one word responses or sexual innuendos back.
The unwillingness to make a good impression to a complete stranger and the total lack of respect is infuriating.
The upside of online dating: you get to know all sorts of people
The downside of online dating: you get to know all sorts of people.
I’ve been doing it for a few years. I found myself putting less and less effort and care less and less about it. Then all it takes was a girl who’s new to the scene and I was over the moon again.
The dates you described absolutely suck. I hope you find better experiences soon!
I suggest setting some rules or limits for yourself. And these are just some suggestions and may or may not work for you or for someone else. These are some of my rules for that fit my particular preferences. Please note I’ve got a practical streak a mile long.
– For first (and maybe even second) dates, always drive yourself. If they offer I politely decline and flat out let them know I feel more comfortable driving myself. I drive an older car so that also weeds out anyone with a strictly materialistic side if they then point out the condition of said car.
– I am always happy to reschedule. If they don’t get paid until Friday, or need me to pick them up because they won’t have a car until next week? “No problem! Saturday works fine for me.”
– “Just so you know, I prefer to pay for my own meal/activity for the first date.” Honestly, how they respond is a great tool too. If they say something like “Works for me” or even if they politely insist because they asked YOU on the date or picked the restaurant/activity then I’m fine with them paying. But if they get bent out of shape, I can just decline actually meeting up with them.
– While I’m interested in someone’s “real” attire, there are certain situations where certain clothing is expected. Like nice jeans and a clean T-shirt is appropriate for mini golf. But dressing up is expected if you’re going to a really nice restaurant (same goes for over dressing to a causal activity. You wouldn’t show up to mini golf in a tux unless the course had a theme night.) If they show up to the date vastly underdressed just say “I don’t think we had the same expectations in mind. Thank you for your time but I don’t think I will be continuing this date.” Remember, you are never obligated to finish or go through with a bad date.
You also have those people who will try to make a good impression up until you become *emotionally invested* in them. Once that happens they reveal their « authentic selves »!
The sooner you know what you’re dealing with the less time you waste overall.
*** »Dating is primarily a numbers game…. People usually go through a lot of people to find good relationships. That’s just the way it is. »*** – Henry Cloud
Best wishes!
God I feel this, honestly even online I’m struggling to find anyone who will put effort into reading my post and keeping up a conversation.
It’s incredibly frustrating when your doing your best and your date or love intrest refuses to do the same.
A relationship is a two way street.
Lotta comments here!
Are all the men who go the extra mile
(a) already taken
(b) not dating because of focus on career
(c) overlooked because the grass is greener
(d) not putting themselves out there enough?
This hit close to home. I feel like this is why I’m so attuned to how they behave in the first few messages on the apps: do they ask questions? Are they referencing your profile, or trying to be funny or thoughtful? If they can’t do that in the first handful of back and forths, they will probably be the same way in person, and I’d rather just know that up front rather than waste an evening for a dude who can’t be bothered to even try and put his best foot forward.
The not putting any thought or effort into how you dress on the first date is so annoying. Ive learned to do something super basic and simple for first dates, like grabbing a drink or coffee. And im never paying the whole bill on a first date. Or driving more than 30 minutes and thats only if we’re trying to meet at a half point or something. Its gotta all be equal effort.
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Genuine question is it bad to do casual dates? Like when I go out to coffee shops as a girl I just wear nice jeans, a shirt, and some sandals because that’s what I normally wear. I look clean and presentable but I don’t like getting dressed up for a number of reasons. 1) I don’t want the guy to think I’m easy/asking for it and 2) I feel that dressing how I usually would is more authentic but is that just me tho and it’s true there is a cost benefit analysis. If I know the date is unlikely to work out while I want to look decent I don’t want to waste money getting dressed up for the date, sometimes I like to get dressed up for myself but if bae is gonna be my bae he should see me how I am haha
SAME GIRL SAME
The quality has gone ALL THE FUCKING WAY DOWN. I deleted all my dating apps for good yesterday. Fuck it fuck it fuck it. If it doesn’t happen in real life (which it never has so I’m not holding my breath), then so be it.
Fuck it.
Hey girl ! I feel you (28f) . This morning I wrote a list of dating tips for myself and nonnegotiable things I will make law in my life . I recommend trying that . Also how long are you chatting with these men before you hangout ? And are you FaceTiming , talking on the phone or just texting ?
For the first link up it should be something simple like coffee and a walk or museum or something to gauge if you would like to continue talking to them . Then you guys can make plans to go on a date . Just a suggestion .
I feel you.
Aftermath of hookup culture… lowered standards in women for what’s required to receive access to sex… lack of effective coaching (for young men and young women) on how to be a great dating partner…
Recipe for disaster.
There are good guys out there. Unfortunately you have to find the needle in the haystack. My first piece of advice is to stop doing dinner dates and do either coffee or a couple of drinks (with a time limit). I quit talking to people that didn’t put any effort into the conversation before even meeting and was quick to move on if they weren’t making any effort in person. My current bf had a long detailed profile, sent long, detailed messages and asked a lot of questions, so I met with him and he is unlike anyone I have ever been with. Just keep trying and be ready to move along quickly if they don’t seem like they are right for you. Unfortunately it’s not you, it’s them, and it’s better to be disappointed and keep on looking than to be with someone that can’t be bothered to even make a good first impression.
I pay for my meals on the first meeting (I don’t date people I don’t know so it’s a meeting until then). I will usually choose a restaurant that’s above fastfood but below fine dinning. My suggestion is have coffee or an early dinner it’s not a date so don’t dress up look nice but make it an everyday look. Unless you groom and dress up every day at all hours. While look are a great thing it’s not the most important.
Hey (25F) so I just wanted to say that there are good men out there and magical dates! I met my boyfriend three years ago at a mutual friend’s birthday, at the end of the night he was so shy but eventually got my number. He asked me out for a milkshake date, picked me up from my house and paid for the whole day. He is also an introvert and kept the conversation flowing the whole time. I know it’s not like online dating but you shouldn’t settle. If you know you deserve better, you will find it.
You could also schedule a zoom/FaceTime Pre date before so you don’t waste your time. It’s easier to judge energy on a call.
I’m sorry it’s so tough out there.
Honestly, it sounds like you need to vet a bit harder to filter most of these guys out. Is it online dating? If so, dismiss anyone who hasn’t put effort into their profile with a good word picture, and a selection of quality photos. That alone should weed out a lot of the low effort guys.
Speaking as a 20 year old guy. I feel a lot of people are after instant gratification, be it a one night stand or a short relationship and are not willing to put in the mutual effort of maintaining a long term relationship when they can just hook up with anyone off of tinder, which is not entirely a bad thing as long as there is mutual respect involved and you are both aware that it’s a hook up so as to avoid hurt feelings.
I feel your frustration. Even tho I’m a dude, I hear plenty of stories about guys who show no effort or lack motivation when it comes to dating or in a relationship who always seem to attract the ladies. It’s one of the numerous reasons I deleted my OLD accounts and have been doing what I want to do, I found myself becoming bitter/jealous at other ppl’s successes when I was sacrificing money, time and energy in the dating game. Gotta take a step back and enjoy my life:)
I think your best bet is to vet longer and more thoroughly before going on an actual date. if someone is a lazy communicator before you even go out, there’s your sign. just cut your losses then. coffee dates are low effort to me and the people suggesting you try that instead are suggesting that you meet low effort potentials at their level rather than seek ones at yours. the next time you feel like you vetted well but are still caught off guard by someone dressed sloppily or making inappropriate conversation, leave as soon as you safely can.
the time and expense it goes into looking good for a date is one of the reasons I don’t pay. there’s no equality in spending time and money dressing up to meet with someone in unwashed sweats.
Sheesh that sucks, well my only advice would be to end the date quickly or bail if they aren’t showing you a little bit of effort.
Dating in the 20th century is a waste of time and mental health. I recommend becoming a nomad and traveling through national parks. Relationships mean nothing in a world obsessed with money and fame. Especially dating apps, it’s quantity over quality on those.
Jeez where do you live?! Over many years of OLD on and off I have never had anything like any of these experiences. Plenty of no-sparks dates, plenty of ghosting but the guys have always shown up and been presented okay and will generally offer to pay (sometimes I’ll let them, sometimes I’ll split the bill).
I typically do something low key for a first date.
If you’re only meeting assholes then you should look at how you’re selecting people to date in the first place. The idea that everyone, male or female, in OLD sucks is ridiculous.
It’s pretty common for people to say they want X, but then only select for Y.
This is kind of shocking, but at the same time not all that surprising because people are trash. I find online dating extremely challenging to the point that I don’t match with anyone I’m genuinely interested in to get to the point of messaging. It’s not super unreasonable because I’m looking for someone I can both have a genuine connection with and certain level of physical attraction to and that’s rare. But damned if I’m not showering, trimming up the beard, moisturizing, putting on nicer clean clothes, driving myself there and paying AT LEAST half the bill. I’m not going to dress up formal because that just isn’t me, but definitely decent looking clean clothes that fit. Beard oil/wash and deodorant that smell good for sure. I don’t really go over the top, but I put in the amount of effort you can expect from me on the regular which compared to this I wouldn’t say is minimal.
Lol if all the men you date are low quality… You’ve been choosing these dates…
Speaking as a guy in your situation, I would pay for dinner dates only to get ghosted or have her lose interest after, so I wasted my time and money on women that ultimately weren’t feeling chemistry with me. I don’t do dinner dates as first dates anymore, too much of a gamble when all the financial risk is put on me.
For all the women complaining they spent money on preparing themselves for the first date (therefore the guy should pay): these guys likely never asked you to spend money on these things in the first place, that’s on you. But you demand THEY pay for the first date because you voluntarily wasted money on your vanity/beauty products before hand.
Lesson to learn: the first date should be a fun activity – a meet and greet to see if you’re even compatible. Plan a more formal dinner date (spend more money) after the connection has been established.
For me, I’ll dress for the planned activity. It we are doing a sit down dinner, I’ll shower, shave an put on button short. If we are doing a city clean up volunteer work, I’ll probably still shower and shave, but I’ll just wear clean jeans an a t-shirt. Once, our first date was the beach, so I did put minimal effort into my appearance. I do try to look presentable regardless of what I’m down or who I’m doing it with. I’m sorry, I think being a woman sometimes sounds hard, with all you have to deal with.though men do have difficult women to deal with sometimes. There are legitimate gold diggers out there. I’m okay with paying, but, I still would rather try to split the bill rather than have to pay everytime.
Ooof this reminds me of the date I had where the guy showed up in a pit stained white shirt and dirty shorts. He was 30 and a lawyer. The only reason I mention his occupation is because he used to go off in texts over how “guy lawyers know exactly how girls think and what they want because we had extensive training for divorces.” So if you knew what girls want.. why you look like that?
It was 103 degrees, and he smelled MUSTY. I made my mom pretend to yell at me on the phone so I can leave early.
Couldn’t agree more! I’m a man, but it works the same with women. They want me to follow their social media’s, expect me to pay for everything, it’s OK for them to date other guys but I can’t date other girls.
Honestly the majority of girls I’ve been talking to just end up leaving me on delivered when they meet someone new, then a few weeks later when that’s over it’s « Oh sorry, my phone got cut off ». Funny, because I’ve seen you online ignoring me every day.
OP, I would die to find a woman like you. A normal, sane, a putting effort I made human being who isn’t expect g the world on a plate. Its ironic people like us exist on both sides but never find each other.
Maybe not McDonald’s, but first dates should be on the cheaper side. Something like coffee, a walk in the park, or a cheap activity like mini golf.
Fact is, most first dates won’t lead anywhere and can be easily ended with an « I wasn’t feeling the vibe » text after the night is finished.
It’s simple mitigation of risk. Spend $10 on ten first dates and you’re out $100 if all ten end after the first date. Basically nothing.
Spend $100 a date and you’re out $1k if all ten first dates go array. That’s starting to get into real money territory.
Second dates and beyond are when the real money starts flowing on dates as that’s when the interest in one another starts to get more real.
How are you meeting these men?
Keep fishing till you catch Poseidon.. nobody ever said dating would be easy.
Problem is people expect far more out than what they are putting in. No one stops to ask what have they done to earn x or y from the person they are expecting it from.
Guys want sex yet haven’t done anything to turn the woman on, haven’t bothered conjuring a decent conversation, coax out some deeply personal facts.
Women expect they guy to just know do everything right and to their tastes as if the guy has none of his own. Expect the guy to put effort when they themselves have done nothing to indicate that they actually want him to win and that his efforts will amount to something meaningful in his eyes.
The real joke is not the lack of effort but that people are genuinely expecting to get out more than they put in, which is why no one is putting in any actual effort in the first place.
Dating may have been a numbers game in the past, now it is just a straight up lottery.
My foundation and outfit usually cost more ( and it usually takes me a day to get ready) than whatever the guy is wearing and the $7 drink he bought me. For this reason I’ve I’ve extremely picky whom I date and whom I spend my time with. It may not be as exciting but it’s less disappointing.
I feel your pain. I gave up trying to date or meet anyone for the same reasons. I can’t believe the lack of effort and laziness from the men.
There’s lots of disappointment from me when I see this as a (24M) but one of the things that comes to mind is how guys like OP mentioned ruin a woman’s mindset for good guys.
I feel like woman go through those bad experiences and then when it comes to the good guys the woman already has her guard up so much is makes it much more difficult than dating already is.
First – I totally get the frustration. However, ‘the guys out there’ is pretty dang broad, friend. You’re likely to experience a variety of dude if you continue, and especially if you alter your approach and/or consider what you may be doing to attract this kind of fella. (it’s not an excuse for their shit behavior, don’t get me wrong. But it’s worth asking the question – are you advertising to the market you actually want?) One word responses? fuck that guy, don’t go out with him. At BEST he’s very boring and lacks social skills. At worst he’ll display the behaviors you’re mentioning in your post.
Second – my unsolicited advice: vet them better up front before going out. Why not have some idea of their level of success/stability, what their day-to-day looks like to some degree, what they think a good date looks like etc etc? These are all not only valid, but interesting lines of conversation that can spark a lot of good questions for BOTH of you to ascertain if there’s a fit! Don’t go out with a do-nothing bum! He needs to focus on himself, and he won’t if girls are out here enabling his bullshit. Don’t you want a man with his shit together? With some sense of himself? Some purpose? Some intelligence and charm beyond his looks? I’m sure you do! So VET FOR THAT SHIT
To take it one step further: Against my own initial judgment I’ve become an advocate of the video date before the real thing. I can’t tell you how much time, preparation, gas and money I’ve saved on dates that would have been trash quality by spending a little face to face time with prospective dates before going out. It gives you such a great chance to find out what kind of vibe you two have, as well as eliminate any issue of deceptively flattering photos/catfishing. Not to mention some additionaly safety and help with first-date jitters and all that.
Selfishly, I’ll end with this: Don’t give up. Many men are craving and actively seeking women like you; who actually try, who want to make a good impression, who aren’t entitled but bring nothing to the table. I’m one of em.
No rant intended – only intend to encourage and help. I hope at least some of this was useful.
Well if you were around me, you and I definitely sound alike. I always show up dressed when like a friend I haven’t seen in awhile is around or in general just being my extrovert self. Don’t give up on dating just because of bad examples, you will find your special someone!
The last date I went on she wanted to go dancing, then when we met she started crying that the guy is supposed to pay, even though she picked a late time to arrive so cover was more expensive. So I paid like an idiot because I was hoping it would work out and she wouldn’t think I was cheap, but when I got there she also expected I would buy all her drinks, and just ignored me and was texting on her phone. Then she said she wasn’t interested in dancing and started dancing with other men! I just left her ass there to call a taxi or whatever. She was very nice when I picked her up and started complimenting me, but when we got there it was Dr. Hekyl and Mr. Hyde