Dating : What are men supposed to do in 2019? Is this the end for us?
I have tried online dating for years and only had one date from it. I’ve been lucky if I get one message back out of 30+ sent. I’m a well liked guy IRL with a fancy career. I am fit though not ripped (don’t seem to have the capacity for a steroid type body without actual steroids I don’t want). I get compliments on my style. I have hobbies and female friends.
Any male friends I have who are similar race or size to me are struggling as well. The only guys I ever meet who are doing well in dating tend to be either white and tall, or white and average height with a nice face. These guys are out picking up new STDs every week while I’m remaining alone.
I saw this thread and I almost laughed in despair and at the ridiculousness of it:
That guy is pretty buff, perfect hair, nice jaw and cheekbones, and yet he’s still struggling? Well it makes me feel better to know even guys like him are struggling. He’s better looking than me. But it’s sad as well.
Is anyone else seeing this or is it just me? Is there any solution? I can’t get any funnier/richer/taller/nicer/etc. And personality doesn’t matter if no one even swipes or replies. I tried Meetups but they were all guys. I tried nightclubs but the attitude was awful and it’s no better getting blown off IRL.
Should men in my position maybe leave the country and go somewhere with less height/race discrimination? If such places exist? It seems brutal to have to throw away my career and family here just to be able to get some dates or have a sex life which is why I haven’t. But I’m seriously thinking about it. I think quality of life is important as much as quantity or wealth, and I would rather live somewhere I can be poor and liked than rich and ignored.
Any suggestions? Other than « just hang in there and keep trying »? (Been there, done that, things seem to only be worsening year by year…)
Do you approach girls? You’re missing a lot of shots if you’re not taking them.
>These guys are out picking up new STDs every week while I’m remaining alone.
Good for them…? Crazy that dudes would rather pick up a venereal disease if they had a choice.
>That guy is pretty buff, perfect hair, nice jaw and cheekbones, and yet he’s still struggling? Well it makes me feel better to know even guys like him are struggling. He’s better looking than me. But it’s sad as well.
Well this is your proof that its not all about looks. Thats all guys on this sub say, « girls are only into good looking guys. » Well, here ya go. Life has range.
>Is anyone else seeing this or is it just me? Is there any solution? I can’t get any funnier/richer/taller/nicer/etc.
Seeing what? That its not easy to succeed in a competitive environment? Thats just life bro.
You can definitely get funnier/richer/nicer at the very least. Why rule out things you have control of? I understand being taller being pretty difficult…but you can easily be a nicer person. Come on dude lol
>And personality doesn’t matter if no one even swipes or replies. I tried Meetups but they were all guys. I tried nightclubs but the attitude was awful and it’s no better getting blown off IRL.
Well, if they dont swipe or reply maybe you’re the one who doesnt have a compelling enough bio? There are many reasons somebody doesnt swipe or reply. What kind of meetups are you selecting? Clearly not ones that are helpful. Nightclubs are for people who kind of know what their doing, or have a bunch of friends and support system. If its not for you, its usually the worst experience you can have…especially if you aren’t out to have fun. If you just judge a club night by whether you hook up or not, life is going to be tough man.
>Should men in my position maybe leave the country and go somewhere with less height/race discrimination?
I live in Tokyo, and this is basically what goofy white guys in America do. They come to Japan and we label them « charisma guys » because its clear they dont get any action back home…so they come to Japan where they get to be the 1% minority and thus get more attention.
>It seems brutal to have to throw away my career and family here just to be able to get some dates or have a sex life which is why I haven’t.
Who says you need to throw away your career and family…? Why such drastic measure?
>I think quality of life is important as much as quantity or wealth, and I would rather live somewhere I can be poor and liked than rich and ignored.
These are your only two choices? Damn dude at least you have the luxury of having this option. I assume most people would opt out of being poor though.
>Any suggestions? Other than « just hang in there and keep trying »? (Been there, done that, things seem to only be worsening year by year…)
Well what do you want to hear? That its over and you have no way of succeeding so just give up?
Your attitude is the biggest problem by far. Not sure what else to tell you, but I think you need to revamp your entire mental calibration. Maybe its time to take some Psilocybin mushrooms and kill that ego, while also getting some much need perspective. I think you need to reset. Your bad habits are bleeding not only into dating, but your own mind state. People can sense this even though you can’t.
Finding some girl will not fix your problems.
As an Asian American millenial who was a very late bloomer and started off in a much worse position than you, I like to hope that I’m speaking from a vantage that will relate to you and seem accessible. That being the case, I’ll spare you a lot of the feel-good platitudes and overblown expectations and instead give you some hopefully actionable advice that actually got me off the starting line. Not because I want to discourage you unnecessarily (because dating is tough, especially as an Asian guy in a society that doesn’t venerate or even recognize Asian masculinity), but because it’s easier to take suggestions when the one giving them to you has at least some things in common and more importantly a sense of the scale and difficulty.
Like I said, I was in every conceivable metric worse off than your self-description: raised on a diet of strict Asian parenting (even by Asian standards), very little socialization in my student years, ignored in high school, somewhat popular in college but still deathly shy, graduated as a skinny-fat dude with a big head, stick arms, and a STEM degree; I had a decent career, good style and a dry sense of humor to compensate but few hobbies and even fewer close friends. As you can probably imagine I wasn’t exactly popular with the ladies, but at the time in my early 20s I was honestly more concerned with furthering my career than anything else, as the inertia of my parents’ « live to work harder every day » mantra hadn’t quite worn off yet. It was only in my late twenties that I felt my time running out and even began to entertain the idea of seriously dating, so I tried everything from Tinder to Omegle (yes, I know), to local meetups, to hanging out with friends of friends, to hanging out with dogs of friends at the few parties they invited me to. Long story short, I tried a lot of methods to be in proximity with interesting women my age, and had varying levels of response from each of these methods, but was still unsuccessful due to my pathological shyness and middling looks.
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What did begin to work for me, at least in terms of **mental game**, was a few key realizations. Some of these you have undoubtedly heard before, but to my knowledge no one has explained them in a way that was applicable to my experience as an Asian male living in a Western/Western European country.
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A) DGAF what others think, but give enough of one where you still have the drive to calibrate your words and actions to present the most irresistible version of yourself. The first part means that whatever awkward or embarrassing shit you do on a small scale ultimately doesn’t matter, as long as you are brave enough to push your boundaries, and find some way to consistently make yourself the most interesting person in the room. Even if you are sociable, you need to extend your comfort zone. If you are not physically attractive, you have to be gregarious to the point of standing out. As an Asian American, this implies being comfortable enough with the current dominant cultural trends to contribute to conversation while at the same time demonstrating a unique take on the more appealing aspects of your own ethnic popular culture.
B) Dating is a numbers game, but there’s more to it than probability. I hate when people say this because it seems self-explanatory, but there’s an alternate sense that’s helpful to keep in mind. With both real-life interactions and online dating, the one thing to remember is that your odds of success increase if you make yourself the « highest value » man in the room, where the « room » is whatever social environment the woman deems the most meaningful in her life. If she’s a hip hop head and you’re an avid breakdancer, then your specific skills suddenly enjoy outsize influence over your seemingly disadvantageous physical or racial attributes. If she loves her job and you’re skilled at your job and you work together, then being the most interesting person in the context where she spends 8+ hours of her day can only help you. My point is that the « talent advantage » is absolutely a thing, and if you are in a social environment where that talent is the focal point then you can achieve the kind of high status that good looks or being a certain race will give you in a bar setting, for instance. The same principle applies in online dating, except that the talent there is physical attractiveness and the « room » is limitless so you’re competing with thousands of good-looking guys.
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The above two points are very difficult to achieve, not only because they are so abstract but because they require a level of fierce introspection and the ability to actively welcome embarrassment as a learning opportunity without regard for how others might perceive you. This involves being willing to join and leave social groups on a regular basis in order to have a wide enough set of interactions to properly shape your personality.
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In terms of **practical suggestions**, since I don’t know your age, your facial attractiveness, your experience level with women (social or sexual), your ethnic/physical preferences in women, or any talents you might have, you will need to modify a few of these points and tailor them to your own experience. But they’re a good starting point regardless.
– ***For the average looking average-height guy, meeting women in real life tends to be more effective than being limited by an online profile and your best-looking picture.*** Unless your text game is impeccable and your personality so unique that it shines through on paper, being able to more accurately represent your style and your demeanor through a more natural, real-life interaction does a better job of weeding out false positives and gauging interest.
– ***Work out and build yourself to the utmost of your physical capacity.*** The most pernicious stereotype facing Asian men in the dating world is that we are effeminate and skinny, so remove any doubt from your mind and the minds of other people that your body is what’s holding you back. If you’re extremely confident and have exceptional mental game then you can skip this step, but I’d strongly suggest it because dating is about maximizing your chances.
– ***Be respectful, but DON’T BE AFRAID TO BREAK SOCIAL RULES***. I believe the primary mental stumbling block that many Asian men face in terms of dating is that we are hampered by our inability to step outside the cultural and societal boundaries placed on us. As a minority, we have no problem demonstrating our capacity to achieve material success, but we’re often too willing to stay between the lines and trade away spontaneity for conformity. By social rules, I mean don’t be afraid to cold approach women in public you might not ordinarily talk to as you go about your day (respectfully, of course). Don’t shy away from taking a shot with women you might deem « too attractive » for you, as long as you have the wit to match. Don’t hesitate to date your coworkers if you feel a mutual attraction and respect. The one good thing about the stereotype that Asians are cookie-cutter and unsociable is that if you happen to be an engaging storyteller or have any knack for witty banter, then by coupling that with a heaping of bravery it’s easy to defy the woman’s expectations by virtue of standing out from the herd.
– ***Be more « bohemian. »*** This point is very specific to Asian guys, but the gist is to think of dating as a college application. You won’t really stand out by being the generic finance or tech bro (1600 SAT admit with perfect grades in the analogy) unless that is the domain that the woman happens to be really interested in herself. At the risk of painting with a mile-wide brush, the kind of guys I’ve witnessed who enjoyed dating success and were not particularly good-looking were guys who had « unconventional » mentalities (your humanities majors, non-traditional admits with compelling life stories). Maybe they had hobbies that weren’t safe or traditionally Asian; maybe they had tattoos and rode motorbikes and what not; maybe they had a nonchalant attitude and weren’t constantly paralyzed by familial and personal expectations. This is related to the previous point about « breaking social rules », because often these guys were the type of sons that our mothers perpetually live in fear of us becoming.
(continued in reply)
Your title is misleading.
Try having a more attractive and better looking face.
Move to a city with people of your own culture; Most women don’t want to date outside their own.
Can I ask a few questions if you don’t mind disclosing?
1) What is your race or cultural background?
2) How old are you?
3) What city are you online dating in?
I have a response, but I think it would be better if I knew more details for what’s going on.
I have a guy get tested first and I offer as well. More times than not they liked that and got tested too. And using birth control and condoms. I am well liked and friendly but I am picky and thus date less men. You could be too. Don’t view it as just dating anyone. Keep your standards where you want them.
Can you post what your profile looks like? What does your bio say? People are looking for someone that breaks the mold when they’re swiping. Generally that means saying something genuine in your bio that makes you sound unique. (i.e. I have a giant text emoji man dancing in my bio because I thought it was fun) As for photos, don’t purely focus on trying to look attractive, just present yourself in as natural a way as you can. (Obviously you want to look good but just try to look like a nice human)
I know I swipe left anytime I come across someone that seems cookie cutter. When you message try to have fun yourself. (I’m a guy btw)
I have much better luck on Hinge than Tinder. I had to swipe for awhile before the algorithm got the hang of who I might be attracted to, but it seems better all around
My 10c; I think I understand at least the OP’s frustrations. Whilst it’s true that, as with everything, a positive attitude is essential for success, no positive attitude can survive an unlimited number of batterings. Also, our opinions are shaped by our environment, and that is subject to plenty of randomness, and plenty of chance; you could be the most average of guys, but were in the right place at the right time, and met some great girl. People always downplay the role of chance in their success (c.f. Malcolm Gladwell), so this guy probably thinks he « did everything right ». On the other hand you could be the exact same guy, but the stars don’t align early on. You get considerably more rejection and little validation. This makes it hard to struggle on and remain positive. You become bitter and jaded and enter a negative feedback loop
So, I don’t have specific advice, just wanted to point out that bad things do happen to good people, and that chance can lead to both happy and unhappy consequences. I’ve struggled with these loops myself, and really wish I had a solution. The essential nature of confidence in a man’s love life tends to result in either positive or negative loops like these. It sucks
As a tall white guy who’s jacked, I assure you we’re not out picking up STD’s or getting women either, we’re having just as much trouble as you are, ladies be hard to win these days.
I’m more ripped than the guy you posted: https://imgur.com/a/CHOFA6F
But he definitely has me crushed on hair and face.
I just think honestly, women aren’t that horny, and they’re not in much of a hurry to find a real partner, they kind of want it to just happen to them, so they’re playing very passive and DGAF.
It’s only been a short period of time that men haven’t been needed for provision and protection, now days we don’t have anything women need, so we gotta give them what they want, which they don’t even know what is…
Having financial stability, a good career, and a nice looking body do not automatically disqualify you from dating. You need to stop thinking that going polar opposite will get you fast results. You don’t need to throw away anything to get dates. If you just want sex, put in your bios that you want sex with no strings attached.
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Don’t just go to random meet ups looking for girls. Find groups that share your interests or hobbies. You said you have hobbies so find a group that also enjoys what you like doing and you might actually find someone you could date.
Gotta learn to love yourself and not seek validation from other people. You said you are risking moving somewhere and losing your career etc for this situation. You sound like you are successful in both career and finances. Do not throw either of those away chasing validation from people. All you can do is be the best version of yourself find hobbies you enjoy and enjoy life through hobbies, friends and your accomplishments.
Don’t throw away what you’ve built for a chance at a relationship. Even if you get into a relationship there is no guarantee it will last and imagine if you threw what you achieved away for a relationship that doesn’t work out. Then it is even worse because you gave up a lot and it didn’t work out in the end.
What race are you and which country do you live?
Race and height have nothing to do with it, it’s all face. Source: im a 6’2 white guy, with decent build and get no dates.
The sad thing is women are going through the same thing, but they will not admit it.
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Being desperate, envious, and racially insecure are major turnoffs. Learn how to be happy with yourself before brining other people into your life. Nobody’s gonna want to date someone as bitter as you regardless of how they look.
Hi, I am not short, let’s say average height and on average I have one date in two or three months and they do not work out anyway. Being taller does not help much.
Some time ago I had a very short friend and he was a fuck machine, girls fall for his charisma by some reason. Idk how it works but once I saw him fucking a girl after 30 min talking to her. Also he was not rich at all.
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