Dating : « Women Should Ask Men Out More »
I see a variation on this topic every so often on these dating subs. It shows delusion and a lack of understanding of male-female dynamics. Riddle me this, if a woman is pretty, personable & feminine…why would she need to ask men out? She probably already has several men vying for her attention. Granted, there are some women who don’t mind pursuing men but are they the type of woman you actually want to be approached by? ***Or do you want to be approached by just ANY woman?*** I’m sure you know this but the hotter she is, the less likely she’ll be pursuing men.
If you want women to behave in a way that is very unconventional by asking you out, what are YOU doing to be that stand-out guy that women actually pursue? Or do you think that by standing there with your hands with your pockets like a wallflower that women should just approach & pursue you?
I’ve only known very few men IRL who consistently had women pursuing them. They were all very good-looking, 2 of them were college athletes (football & basketball). Other men who don’t really have to try when it comes to attracting women are professional athletes, musicians who tour, rich/famous men….the types of men who most likely aren’t posting about their dating woes on Reddit.
The rest of y’all are going to have to pursue if you want female attention.
This assumes that the attention a woman is getting is from the guys she wants it from.
Why shouldn’t a woman, hot or otherwise, take agency in her pursuit of finding the guy that SHE wants instead of sitting there and waiting for him to hopefully show up?
Regardless of your gender, sexuality, attractiveness, etc if you aren’t happy with your dating life it’s up to you to take action to change it and not going up to a guy because of some imagined set of rules is absurd.
i wanna say its get with the times but i like bein old fashion with some things.. saying that though i honestly believe man or woman it shouldnt matter were all human in the end and if you like someone just go for it.. worst thing that can happen is you learn they dont have the same feelings but at least ya know.. we as humans dont come with a billion years and every second is a gift so honestly might as well take your shots while you have them because you never know unless ya try
Instead of looking at dating as made up by 2 opposites, male and female, with different expectations and demands to each gender, why don’t we just go for something more grounded. You like a person of the opposite sex? Ask them out. It’s not that hard and it really shouldn’t be.
I see it come up too, but almost exclusively in response to women saying they don’t get asked out enough or are having trouble, and asking what to do in a thread here
In that situation, asking out men is very good advice since it makes them hugely stand out and gives a big boost to number of dates they can get if they’re struggling.
It’s also good advice if you are receiving attention, but the wrong attention from people you don’t want to date. Simply asking out the ones you do is going to be way simpler than indirectly shifting things around to naturally entice different ones in.
The only relationship I’ve been in was initiated by a girl that was considered by most(me included lol) to be very hot, and she had done that just simply because she found me fun to be around. I am really not super physically attractive, so if you just put your best self out there you never know what may happen.
I think the general consensus is that women should mostly be clear if they like someone and not have the most vague and unrecognizable ways to “flirt” with someone.
I don’t mind having to ask a woman to go out with me and I don’t expect them to ask me.
But if they’re interested, walking past my desk or something won’t make me notice them.
I think everyone should be comfortable initiating the process with someone they are interested in. If you’re a girl and you like a guy but he seems aloof, go talk to him. Initiate and pursue are not the same thing. Just because you’re a mega super hot woman doesn’t mean you should be exempt from taking the first step with someone you’re interested in. You’re just missing out. Not every man is the same. To be honest sometimes men get so burned out from rejection that we have to take some time away from trying to talk to girls, so if you fall within that period you missed out on someone you might have had something good with.
I always thought people saying this were referring to women who wont do anything to get a specific guy they like. I’ve had friends in the past tell me they like a dude then ask what they should do. I always tell them to just go talk to them, they are always comically scared (in a cute way) to just speak to him lol.
Maybe it’s because I’m a guy, but I can’t imagine wanting a specific person and just hoping fate makes it happen. Even if it has a good chance of happening due to traditional dating dynamics, I’d rather takes the reins and make shit happen myself.
Women should ask men out too. I’m not saying it’s easy. I’ve done it. I’ve been rejected. But asking men to be the only ones to ask for a date isn’t fair.
Speaking as a woman: yes, absolutely, women SHOULD ask men out more. Why can’t we normalize this? Why can’t we be more equal when it comes to dating expectations (and for that matter, expectations of buying the ring with three months’ salary, proposing, etc. down the line)? We’re only holding ourselves back by holding onto these outdated ideas.
So basically women are objects to be won. Got it.
This is why we’re frustrated. Men are expected to be so much more competent than women. Your point is « well she’s looks good and is friendly, what else more do you need??? » But upon citing what man needs to do to be approached, you go straight to athletes.
This is definitely a post from someone who doesn’t know anything about women
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A man might get lucky a couple times a year…even a broken clock is right twice a day. Comparing men’s dating to women’s dating is apples to oranges though for the most part. Point is I’ve had women pursue me throughout the years and at least in my experience I like when a woman takes control…but your mileage may vary
I think you are misunderstanding the idea.
We could absolutely be talking about separate things, but so far I’ve only seen this argument in the context of the woman liking the man. In this case the general course of action for a woman is to start « hinting », so basically nudging the man to ask her out. This sometimes includes trying to get him into desperate need of attention from her, or get him jealous with attention from other men.
The problem is that this hinting process usually just confuses men, and if the « getting them desperate/jealous » part is involved it can even discourage men from initiating. That is why just asking him out is a better course of action.
I didn’t wanna admit it but something VERY true in OPs post is the fact that if you’re not noticeable, why on earth would we ask you out?
I see people saying “get with the times”- but what do the times have to do with pursuing people who don’t look interesting? What do the times have to do with asking dudes we aren’t attracted to out?
The whole thing about guys with their hands in their pockets is also so real- I’ve seen dudes complain about not being asked out and they’re that exact dude. Just standing around with their hands in their pockets expecting someone to notice them out of all the other hand-in-pocket dudes.
I think the argument is that woman when approaching will almost never be rejected. Men get rejected a ton on the approach. Why does society make men face the constant rejection if woman started approaching there would be far less.
Lol, are people saying this? That’s wild if they are.
I’ve asked women out plenty, but my last four or five dates have been women asking me out.
The belief that women aren’t asking men out is funny.
I’m assuming it’s more sour people posting about that. Men and women ask each other out all the time. It doesn’t matter who asks first. It happens both ways.
As a man that gets relentlessly pursued by attractive woman constantly I can honestly say that if you are tall and handsome you don’t have to do a damn thing..but being tall and handsome is the key component.
Why should a party have to put no effort into the dating game besides “looking pretty”? Why does all the burden fall on the male?
I think it is kind of dumb that it is just expected for guys to ask out girls. Same thing for not splitting the bill as the default on first dates. It just seems fair that one isn’t expected to do something that both could easily do.
I am a guy and obviously am open to changing my opinion but it seems to make more sense to come into it as equals.
In the era of me too men ate far more reluctant to approach women and women are noticing this so a change in the dynamic is required if women want relationships. A lot of men would rather stay single than risk being falsely accused and have their lives destroyed. These days we risk far more than just rejection
>The rest of y’all are going to have to pursue if you want female attention.
This is the crux: Women are inherently very passive creatures, as you already said. A woman wont have to do much, and not much is expected from her. For a woman to take initiative or pursue is very, very rare. As a man, you’re simply expected to do much more, as even the most mediocre and bland woman will have other men pursuing her.
OP is absolutely correct here
-Don’t ask women out at the gym, she’s there to work out, not get hit on
-Don’t ask women out at the store, she’s there to shop, not get hit on
-Don’t ask women out at the bar, she’s there to chill (with or without her friends), not get hit on
-Don’t ask women out at work, she’s there to work and if you’re a customer she’s paid to be nice to you, not get hit on
-Don’t ask women out on the bus or subway, that makes her feel unsafe, not get hit on
-Don’t ask women out at the club, she’s there to dance and have fun (with or without her friends), not get hit on
-Don’t ask women out at church, she’s there to worship, not get hit on
-Don’t ask women out at activities, she’s there to hike/climb/taste wine/ballroom dance/play trivia/see the museum/walk her dog, not get hit on
-All of these (which I have actually seen women say/post, every single one of them…and some of them are good calls) are null and void if she’s interested in you
-If she’s interested in you, you’d better read it correctly, because haha, women shouldn’t ask YOU out, loser
-If she’s NOT interested in you, you’d better read THAT correctly TOO, because women don’t like to be asked out by men they’re not interested in, creep
Women want to be asked out by men they’re interested in. Women DON’T want to be asked out by men they’re not interested in. Women want men to know when they’re interested. Most women DON’T want to ask men out if they’re interested in them.
Those are the only rules that count.
« the hotter she is, the less likely she’ll be pursuing men »
lol No. Please don’t buy into this fallacy. All hot women don’t behave the same way, and women are willing to make the first move come in a variety of attractiveness.
As some one who always listened to women say they most men who would chase them were creepy( unless they were really hot), kinda always stuck with me, kinda decided to just let girls chase me if they were interested so I don’t have to worry if I’m bothering or annoying, and it worked great. My last relationship lasted 8-9 years. But now I’m turning 30 this year and my hair is falling out and most girls don’t even look at me.
Honestly letting girls do the chasing was amazing when I was younger. Less guess work, less stupid games.
Now that I’m older and I have to do the chasing, I hate it. It’s a huge uphill battle for attention, between work, social media, and other men who are way more aggressive than I when it comes to flirting, I just end up on read for weeks.
Not complaining, it is what is.
What works for some people is a disaster for other. Every one is different.
Good luck in your search for love.
Hey you don’t deserve to be in a relationship if this is your mindset
« if a woman is pretty, personable, etc, why would see need to ask men out? »
This. This right here is the stupid mindset.
You don’t realize your own options are an external factor and you’re being negligent with how and what you filter for. You have 0 control over who approaches you. You have 100% control over who you approach. So if you leave it to men to approach you you’re always going to end up with 1 type of men; the type of men who approach you.
You’re probably thinking, well good, it shows they have balls. No. That couldn’t be further from the truth. In fact, the type of men who approach you are spineless, nutless sycophants. They’re the men who stick around regardless of what you say or do, regardless of how rude, narcissistic, or insufferable it might be, who tell you that you’re pretty and special even when you’re not because they have no self respect and they think if they prostrate themselves like this they might one day earn the right to lick your boots (or god forbid, your ass).
There is probably a whole category of men who thought about approaching you, or briefly tried to approach you and got one whif of your elitist attitude and noped the fuck out of there. You wouldn’t even know how many opportunities you’ve missed this way because they didn’t happen to you. This is survivorship bias. Because of this survivorship bias you probably think you’re cursed with men because you seem to have so many options but they’re all such BAD options. When really, YOU’RE the bad option. You’re the option that’s been tainted by living in your little echo chamber and shying away from a challenge or confrontation with any man who doesn’t immediately accept worship and want to bed you at face value but that also means you’re shying away from any man who would push you to be better, be your best self. You’re shying away from any man who sees your flaws because rejection is a foreign experience to someone who has the luxury of always being approached but that also means you’re doomed to shy away from every man who SEES YOU FOR WHO YOU ARE and that means no man will ever truly see you and maybe that’s your comfort zone. Someone who will be honest with you instead of just telling you what you want to hear to get into your pants.
Because when you actually do the approaching, there are no training wheels, its not pleasant or fun, you don’t get to sit back and critique the process and you are way out on a limb trying to vibe with someone and you realize they don’t immediately click with you because you’ve spent your entire life taking for granted just how hard men are trying to cultivate a « vibe » that seems natural, that seems like it just « happens », because it doesn’t just happen… Its deliberate and methodical and it starts out with failure at the skill level you are presently experiencing when they are only just a child and they have to build a thicker skin and tricks and lines and ideas and conversation starters and build a mental library from which to develop what is actually a tangible skill.
And you experience as an adult the same exact discomfort they feel as a child but you’re unmotivated to push past it because you don’t share the same incentive that if you don’t learn or do SOMETHING you’re going to die alone because you don’t actually have to do ANYTHING to have an interaction… You don’t even have to interact, there’s plenty of men out there willing to have both sides of the conversation for you.
So at the slightest bit of awkwardness you vow never to try it again and go back to being the approached and go back to surrounding yourself with all the wrong types of men thinking you deserve better when what you really deserve is much, much less.
I’m pretty, personable and feminine. Why can’t some tall and strong lady come along, tell me I’m cute and then protect me? Heck I actually had a tomboy girlfriend in high school who pursued me so I don’t see any reason why I should stop being the way that I am. I just want to feel deserving of love and not like I have to pry it out of someone.
So what you’re saying is that if I am not a model, I should wear makeup, use filters on my photos, and then women will approach me? Got it.
I feel I’m fairly attractive and I’ve made my fair share of pursuits. I think anyone, male or female should take their fate into their own hands if they see an opportunity.
Watch Kevin Samuels. Life is fun and games when you’re young and pretty, but looks fade. When they do what are you going to be left with?
Also, you’ve generalised men into one category, we don’t just / only go for looks. We go for fertility, supportiveness, and in **my own view**: I pursue women with a brain and a technical career.
Yeah, you do get asked out 10 times a day. But are they the type of men you want? Usually, it’s the gross, catcallers, slobs, older men – the slouches that are asking you out.
Luckily for me I fit in your category of: Men who women pursue. So I can be picky with whom I choose.
The male-female dynamic to which you refer places a much greater emphasis on competence in men, which is infantilizing to women.
Yeah, I don’t ask men out. If he wants to date me, it’s up to him, either way, I’m not losing anything.
I have never and would never ask a guy out, never found the ‘shy guy’ thing attractive
No one says they should or not.
But in in an egalitarian utopian future society maybe guys should also not be pressured to be the sole initiators for anything.
As a woman, I could not agree with this more. I am completely 100% sick of stupid sex-based roles and stereotypes. I *hate* getting hit on by men. Hate it. Because it puts me in the position of having to be the bad guy when I reject them. When I am interested in a guy (which doesn’t happen until I know him pretty well), I make sure he knows. I either ask him out outright or I tell him point blank that I’m into him and let him decide what he wants to do with that. Fuck these stupid rules created and enforced by men which gives them the upper hand while we are supposed to sit around and hope that they guy we like has the balls to ask us out. I’m not playing by bullshit arbitrary rules just because someone says I’m supposed to. I live life on *my* terms.
I’m a woman and the number of times I’ve had unwanted attention is quite large. It doesn’t help that my friends are composed of mostly guys either, so my default stance is usually to be a friend first if they seemed decent or to strike down any possibility if I can’t see us being anything more than friends. The other side of the coin is I will actually have to make the being interested move if I really do want anything more than the default status.
Men approaching women is also a first line of defense to weed out insecure, weak guys. If she’s giving you signs she’s interested and you either don’t pick up on them or are two scared to approach her she avoids wasting her time talking with him.
She could technically approach the guys but women are attracted to men differently than men are attracted to women. They have so many options and they could easily waste their time dating the wrong guy (according what their body makes them attracted to)
Having the guy approach her is an easy first test to weed out guys she’s typically not gonna be attracted to.
This is another way to look at it on top of the basic why would someone who’s getting perused on the regular decide to start approaching guys?
The guys complaining about this don’t even want to approach lol if you don’t want to approach why do you think they would?
This isn’t gonna change anytime soon and for most men this would be worse.
It would turn real life dating into a dating app and from seeing even average looking guys complaining on these subs they don’t get any success on there.
At least if you can approach her she can feel your presence and energy…….
The majority of women still prefer the man asks a woman out for the first date and pays for it.
If that hasn’t changed why would approaching?
Mate I’m telling you rn if a girl asks me out then that’s the woman I wanna be approached by
And not just this, but it feels so nice for both men and women I think, when the man is pursuing. It makes him feel like the man he is, do you really want to rob him of this unique opportunity to feel good about himself? It also is so flattering and good for a woman as well, it feels good.
And if the woman is pursuing it is most likely that the guy is not interested, no man that is interested in whatever will let a woman he likes “slip” without taking action, he is 100% going to do something. Some can be subtle others more bold, others casual/friendly, but there is no way they will not flirt or initiate or ask you out. So the ones who don’t do that, they don’t like you and they are not worth your time, it’s so simple.
A lot of women think they should go after a guy etc ‘cause “female empowerment”, but they don’t realise they set up themselves for a disaster as 1. Female empowerment is not about behaving like a man and 2. These men could not care less about them, because if they did, they most certainly would have been the ones to initiate.